Lalor gets convention vote but primary looms


Peekskill’s Kieran Lalor, the Iraq War veteran who’s making a bid for the Republican nomination to challenge Rep. John Hall, to a huge step forward last night. He won close victory at last night’s special 19th Congressional District convention held in Putnam.

Lalor edged out Westchester Legislator George Oros, R-Cortlandt. Former Rep. Joe DioGuardi was a distant third.

Oros, however, vowed to carry on with his campaign.

“I entered this race knowing there was going to be primary,” Oros said this morning. “I have been planning for a primary. We are going to take it to the Republcan voters and see what happens.”


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  1. For the life of me, I can’t understand anyone who thinks that Pataki has any juice left. Maybe some hangers-on still listen to him, but the normal Republican on the street sees him as a has-been, at best.

    Republicans had a golden opportunity in the 90’s, both across the country and in New York, and then they blew it. George Pataki is history, I’m sorry.

  2. Max, I haven’t heard from anyone else that KML has ever joked about waterboarding. Whatever you think about it, waterboarding is not funny, and I think that KML is a serious guy, who wouldn’t say that kind of stuff. Why do you slander him like that?

  3. Lalor has joked about waterboarding John Hall a couple of times. Hall’s campaign people already know this and will use it on Lalor if he’s the nominee. You think Sweeney got hit with an October special in 2006 with the release of that domestic abuse story? You haven’t seen nothing yet.

  4. sorry Skeptic, but I heard Lalor joke about waterboarding John Hall. It was something along the line of, if you waterboarded John Hall and asked him who he doesn’t want to run against he would say Lalor. I guess some really sensitive people may be offended by that, but he delivered it in a tone that made it pretty clear that he was joking. Let’s be honest though, in a world where our enemies chop off the heads of innocent people it is rather funny that liberals get the vapors over the use of a technique that inflict upon our own Special Forces guys.


    Bondi is a joke.

    Don Smith doesn’t deserve his position of Sheriff. Didn’t earn it, and nobody respects him within the department.

    Ball is done, despite Tony’s proxies.

    Without Tony’s proxies, Ball got less then 10% of the vote; Degnan over 90%. Nothing to do with Willis Stapehens losing 750 days ago. It has to do with, well, …..GREG BALL.

  6. the consultant on

    the discussion among you regarding the 19th cd…whether
    oros promised not to run a primary, the leader has to
    go, whether lalor mentioned waterboarding….is a broader
    indication that there is no seminal issue binding republicans together in the effort to unseat Hall…Hall won
    the race by defeating an incumbant tied to george bush and
    the war..the fact that lalor is a veteran is not relevant
    to the “lets get out of Iraq’ feeling that apparently exists
    in the 19th..your demographics are changing rapidly..
    many republicans are totally disgusted with the president’s
    conduct of foreign policy..and to win the seat back
    you had better come up with some issue that resonates
    with not only republicans but with Independents because
    those are the voters you will need to switch back…
    how about the price of oil and our lack of energy policy
    which environmentalists like Hall stop drilling off shore
    where there are plenty of about stopping
    the reckless spending of the democrats in congress.
    or how about attaching Hall to Obama…and running against
    Obama/Hall as the inexperienced foreign policy team…
    lots of choices but arguing about the collateral stuff
    doesn;’t help beat Hall

  7. There is no “let’s get out of Iraq” sentinment, at least none that is significant, in the 19th. Edelman obviously knows nothing about the 19th and is just beating his “conservatives are too extreme” drum over and over. We don’t need you or your limousine-liberal, Rockefeller Republican, certain to lose the district, strategy here in the 19th.

    And your comment “give oros [sic] time to gather his thoughts” has to be one of the dumber things you’ve said recently. SpongeBoy is the one who ran to the press, whining about his loss and threatening to run a primary. It shows he lacks proper temperment and good sense. He should have taken the time to gather his thoughts. The rest of us here are reacting to his stupidity and rash comments.

  8. the consultant on

    see debra with attack attitudes like yours and claims
    to know what the 19th cd voters think about Iraq, your
    view is clearly glaucomic…I suggested that in order
    to make it easier for Oros to allow Lalor (not my choice)
    to run without a primary that your attack dogs should
    simply stop rubbing it in his nose for a few days
    but common sense seems to allude you because all
    ideologues have the same problem …they get so
    committed that they can;t make rational decisions…
    and neither can like to force feed your
    conservative agenda down the throats of all voters
    your problem however is that the 19th cd has already
    chosen an anti war congressman…you want to re run
    that race..or do you want to change the focus
    to issues upon which Hall has no gravitas….
    since you don;t like my strategy because its too liberal
    whats your suggeston for your candidate lalor…

  9. The “consultant” would have more credibility if he knew the difference between “allude” and “elude.”

    He really doesn’t have a clue.

  10. the consultant on

    if spelling were the test of would
    certainly be a genous..good luck running lalor the
    way you want to …get back at all those liberals
    who voted for hall…that should get you real far

  11. the consultant on

    what is it you do not agree with about the strategy

    Hall won
    the race by defeating an incumbant tied to george bush and
    the war..the fact that lalor is a veteran is not relevant
    to the “lets get out of Iraq’ feeling that apparently exists
    in the 19th..your demographics are changing rapidly..
    many republicans are totally disgusted with the president’s
    conduct of foreign policy..and to win the seat back
    you had better come up with some issue that resonates
    with not only republicans but with Independents because
    those are the voters you will need to switch back…
    how about the price of oil and our lack of energy policy
    which environmentalists like Hall stop drilling off shore
    where there are plenty of about stopping
    the reckless spending of the democrats in congress.
    or how about attaching Hall to Obama…and running against
    Obama/Hall as the inexperienced foreign policy team…

    so far you guys are great at name calling but I am
    not really impressed with your dealing with the election

  12. ah the republicans… out of touch….scanning the respondents here – did this turkey lalor really indicate he would water board congressman hall ? say it ain’t so ! and also tell the little doofus to stop littering the neighborhood with his lawn signs

  13. Consultant, I agree that energy independence should be a prominent part of any campaign against Hall. The problem with that is the fact that Sue Kelly was one of the twenty or so Republicans that had ANWR drilling pulled from the budget in late 2005 and yet she still has a good amount of sway with Republicans in the 19th.

    As for allowing Oros to “gather his thoughts,” I’m with Debra in principle if not in attitude. Oros said flat out that he would not run in a primary if he wasn’t the Party’s choice. He should have issued a vague statement about assessing where his campaign goes from here rather than saying he always knew it would go to a primary.

  14. 7Curses, he didn’t say he would waterboard Hall. He made a joke about what Hall’s response would be if he were waterboarded. I know it’s not as funny as all of the Democrats who joke about killing President Bush, but I chuckled when I heard it.

  15. the consultant on

    Jeff I am not arguing that oros didn’t make that committment
    all I am saying is that to pour salt on the wound would
    be to instigate a situation in which he might be more
    prone not to keep his committment

  16. In a Rasmussen poll, just 22% believe that W is doing a good or excellent job handling the situation in Iraq. That’s down 6% from just a month ago. I live in the 19th, and I know many folks who think we need to get out of Iraq. Perhaps Debra needs to expand her circle of friends.

  17. the consultant on

    walt..i think you hit the nail on the head..many conservatives do not understand that even some conservative
    republicans think the war was a mistake ….and if they
    do think about the number of independents with the same is why debra’s approach to this congressional
    race is skewed ideologically…and cannot succeed..
    hopefully whomever lalor’s consultant is recognizes

  18. I must confess again, it’s obvious I prefer George; however, The Consultant seems to be the most sane on this page. I stated before that to hope for a peaceful primary process, and the insinuations people like Debra and others are making is just foul play. The fact is if there is a primary, get over it and stop crying about it here. Hall went into a primary with a slew of other Dems and was able to unseat Kelly, why can’t Lalor or Oros do the same?

  19. Debra, Sara R, etc…
    Didn’t you read the polls? Sponge Bob is at the top of the polling charts. Everyone like’s Sponge Bob. Don’t antagonize a hero.

  20. A person who votes on

    The below posting was put on ALBANY WATCH by Josephn Spector on May 22.

    If this is true they should be ashamed of themselves. Don’t they have the Courage to vote on it before the elections. Of course they do not, they will all loose.

    Pay raise predicted for lawmakers
    22 Legislators will return to the Capitol after the November election to vote themselves – a judges – a pay raise that will take effect in January, one lawmaker predicted.
    “We’ll probably do about 3 percent a year, but keep it (base pay) just under $100,000,’’ said the lawmaker, who spoke about the issue only if he wasn’t identified. “Then we’ll jack up the lulus too, ‘’ he said, referring to payments for leadership posts.

    Base pay for legislators, $79,500, was last increased in 1999. A 30 percent raise would bring that total to almost $106,000. All 62 senators and 42 Republican members of the Assembly get extra payments that boost the average pay well over $90,000. About two-thirds of the 108 Democrats also get the payments.

    If the pay raise is passed after the Nov. 4 elections but before the end of the year it would allow lawmakers to avoid a voter backlash and also have the hikes take effect in January when a new Legislature takes place. By law lawmakers can’t raise their own pay, but can of an incoming Legislature. In practice, of course, almost all of those now holding office will still have their seats in January.

    A Senate spokesman said the issue hasn’t come up, while an Assembly spokesman had no comment.

  21. It is Shameful that the legislature would do that. I would like our Senators & Assemblyman to respond on how they would vote on this. So when the vote comes up you will see if they voted the way they said they would.

  22. Governor Paterson has promised to veto any pay raises. He has already put a freeze on hiring. We will see if he delivers on putting a lid on wasteful spending. I think he will!

  23. His veto is useless if the Senate and Assembly want raises (and they do) They will pass this after the elections and enjoy the cash in January. Jesus reincarnated couldn’t put a lid on wasteful spending in NY.

  24. Throw the Bums Out.

    This is very sad, very sad. People just keep voting for the same people.

  25. the consultant on

    with one exception..that is our elected judiciary..they
    have not had a raise in 10 cost of living increases no nothing..a first year law student at a new
    york law firm makes more than they do….if we want to attract the best legal talent to sit in judgment on our
    legal matters we need to pay reasonable salaries…
    otherwise we are simply going to get people who are
    unable to make it in the real world…this is not a partisan
    statement…judges in new york are from both parties

  26. please stop pushing for salary increases on

    The Consultant is correct. It is not a partisan statement. It is a dumb one. Judges make less than investment bankers as well. So what? Many people are getting laid off. Judges have a cushy job in which it is almost impossible to get fired. According to the Consultant’s logic, we should pay judges $2 million dollars because that is what top partners at New York law firms make and if want to attract people to the judiciary instead of private law firms, we need to pay that kind of money. That is stupid. It is a public service job with many of the judges serving in rural areas of the state in which six figure salaries is a lot of money. Few, if anyone, turns down a judgeship. Only a handful of New York associates (not law students) working at only a handful of New York law firms working considerably longer hours doing considerably less interesting work where the average stay is less than 3 years make more than judges make. The average law student graduates law school either without a job or one that pays considerably less than six figures. Moreover, most of those law firms that pay those kind of salaries only recruit at top-20 law schools. The majority of the New York judges did not and could not get hired by these firms out of law school. So the comparison is ridiculous. Yes, they have not gotten a raise in 10 years but there last raise was extraordinary large. I too would like to make more money but I cannot sue for an increase.

    Just as an aside, the judiciary is not elected in every scenario. Many judges are appointed. It should also be noted that the Consultant and his firm appear before these judges so he is by no means a neutral observer in this discussion. He has every incentive to push for increases on this blog and try and curry favor with judges that his firm will be before.

  27. please stop pushing for salary increases on

    Assistant District Attorneys along with most public servants working as lawyers make less than $60,000 starting out. This is true even if you work for the Manhattan DA. A highly coveted position, which is probably close to as hard to get as being an associate in one of the mega-law firms that pays incredibly high salaries. Being a judge looks pretty good in comparison.

  28. the consultant on

    you have it wrong.”please stop pushing” your numbers are
    off..judges make 130,000 per year know very
    well that first year associates in major firms pull down
    better than 200,000…in midtown firms its 150,000
    judges have a bigger responsiblity than researching briefs
    for partners…they have to decide cases…you want judges
    with little or no high end experience to do that ..that is
    your business….they are public employees…they are in the
    courthouse hearing cases every day….you think that is cushy…why don’tyou spend some time in the “renovated”
    westchester county courthouse….where numerous judges
    and court personal have been taken out sick becuse the
    building sucks….your handful analogy is ludicrous
    and insulting… associates in almost every
    major downtown firm..and that is literally hundreds
    plus associates in every midtown firm
    and that is thousands make by the time they are there
    two or three years a lot more than the judges..but you
    can have it your way….you can have ill equipped political
    hack lawyers who want to be judge run for office….just
    hope you don’t have a case that needs an experienced jurist
    to resolve….good luck see you in palm beach

  29. please stop pushing for salary increases on

    There are 62 counties in the state of New York. New York State Supreme Court justices are paid $136,700 a year. In the vast majority of counties, $136,700 is a lot of money. I have no idea where you are getting your numbers from but they are wrong. There is no distinction between midtown law firms and other law firms in New York City. First year associates do not make more than $200,000 at any law firm with the possible exception of Wachtell Lipton, where they have beds in the office and where most associates bill more than 2500 hours. You read about a small number of law firms and act like the majority of graduating law students have those jobs. They don’t. As the late Senator Moynihan once said, “Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.”

    Judges are public servants. They will never make what others in the private sector make. That is the sacrifice you make by going into the public sector. In turn, you have much better hours, more job security, better pension, and generally less stress. Judges, who are motivated by money and who can land a partnership at a top law firm will do that regardless of whether their salaries are raised or not. It is a false argument to make that somehow no one will be a judge or only hacks will be judges unless salaries are raised this year. Please give examples of people who turned down judicial appointments because it paid $136,000 rather than $160,000. It is far easier for you to make unbacked assertions rather than to provide empirical evidence for some shaky conclusions. I am not sure how Palm Beach plays into this but going by your other post it seems that you are moving to Florida. Thus, if you want to be magnamous with your tax dollars, by all means do so. I don’t. I don’t tell people in Florida how much to pay judges and I don’t expect Florida residents to tell me what I should spend my taxes on.

  30. please stop pushing for salary increases on

    Salaries are a little higher but otherwise the situation is not much different in New York.

    Article in the Houston Chronicle: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don’t Earn Big Bucks, by Maty Flood:

    People have a false impression about lawyers — that they all make six-figure salaries. With at least three big law firms in Houston announcing this month that they’re raising starting pay to $160,000, there’s reason for the confusion. But the reality is that first-year graduates from the three Houston law schools make as little as $30,000 a year and have a median salary of around $70,000. …

    A lot of law students, seduced by publicity about high-end salaries and some wishful thinking, aren’t grounded about legal salaries either. “Every student thinks they are going to be in the top 5 percent of the class and make $150,000. The reality is they are not…

    The law students who go to the top-tier firms will make $120,000 to $165,000 annually, but that will be the top 10 percent or less, according to the local law school career offices. Those in midsize firms will make roughly $55,000 to $80,000. At small firms or government jobs, they get $40,000 to $60,000. Solo practitioners may make $30,000 or even live off loans when they start out. Certainly with experience, these lawyers should increase their income and eventually most of them will get past $100,000, but not that far past it. The median income or 50th percentile, for all attorneys in Texas was $113,300 in 2005, the last time the State Bar of Texas conducted its survey.

  31. the consultant on

    stop the crap..national figures are meaningless and your
    quoting them shows your economic deficiency..this is not texas…this is new york….I am not suggesting we pay
    judges according to what texas lawyers make…quite
    frankly people who make arguments like you do make
    me wonder about whether you can reason

  32. please stop pushing for salary increases on

    YOU ARE A HUGE MORON. Large Texas firms pay the same starting salary as New York law firms. Once again, that is fact. I realize you have trouble with facts. The salaries are not that different and the same problem that Texas lawyers have finding jobs leaving law school is relevant to New York lawyers. In fact, given the large number of New York law school graduates it may be harder to find a job in New York. You should buy a book on economics (AND READING COMPREHENSION) because you have an odd definition of economic deficiency. As someone who went to law school thirty years ago, and did not land a top private sector job you have no idea what law firms pay.

    This is reported data by St. John’s law school, which is an above average law school in New York. Only 65.7% of its graduates had jobs at graduation in 2007. This was when the economy was significantly better than now. Out of those having jobs, the starting salary was $80,000 for private sector jobs and $49,000 for public sector jobs. The average cost of a law school education is over $150,00 (considerably more expensive when judges went to school). The data is probably skewed higher because many with low-paying jobs probably did not participate in the survey.

    Have fun in Florida. You can advocate for judicial raises there. I am sure this blog will really miss you. We might actually have smart intellectual discourse and not idiotic remarks from someone who does not have the faintest clue what he is talking about.

  33. the consultant on

    stop making up garbage…i am not interested in averages
    i am interested in the top of the profession which
    is what judges should represent….texas is not representative of anything…averages are meaningless
    since many lawyers work for legal aid and other
    municpal agencies…you either want good judges
    or you don’t

  34. You have no right calling the Consultant a Huge Moron; If you knew the man, you would know that he is not huge. This is the kind of thing that you might say to someone who speeds through a red light, runs into your car and then laughs about it, not someone who disagrees about starting salaries for lawyers. Sorry for the little joke in the first sentence. Just thought a little humor might come in handy.

    Sorry, too, that I posted this a few moments ago on the incorrect blog. What an IMBECILE!

  35. please stop pushing for salary increases on

    Ed, unfortunately the Consultant was the one who made this personal. Please read his comments. When someone skews your words, distorts your opinion, makes threatening remarks such as “just hope you don’t have a case that needs an experienced jurist
    to resolve”, questions my commitment to good judges, and generally has trouble following an argument, that makes me question his intelligence.

    You are correct though that it should not be personal.

    So here are some facts:

    • The New York State Supreme Court are not the top of the profession, federal judges are at the top of profession. Unlike federal judges, many of whom have the highest professional and academic qualifications, most of the state judges are not foregoing lucrative private sector careers but are generally competent lawyers with political connections.
    • Regardless, of how much judges are paid at the state level, you are not going to see a huge increase in talent. Until this year, federal judges many of whom came from top law firms where they made high six and low seven figure salaries were paid $165,000 yet there was very little attrition in their ranks.
    • For example, any Supreme Court Justice could make seven figures in the private sector yet justices on the Court almost never step down to make more money and I have not heard of any Justice turning down an appointment for financial reasons. Chief Justice John Roberts has also been on the war path about judicial salaries yet he was more than willing to forgo his private sector salary to take a position on the Supreme Court. Everyone, would like to be paid more, yet there is no evidence that we lose more than a handful (at best) of justices at the federal or state level because of judicial salaries.
    • Just because I don’t favor justices suing for a salary increase in the midst of a BUDGET CRISIS and BAD ECONOMY does not mean that I want bad judges any more than someone who finds that Westchester public school teachers don’t deserve raise somehow wants bad teachers. I wouldn’t suggest that the Consultant who has taken issue with police benefits is anti-having good police man. So don’t call my motivation into question.

  36. please stop pushing for salary increases on

    Being a state judge is a huge honor. Compared to most public interest jobs in the state, they are compensated well. Compared to most lawyers in the private sector (with the exception of 5-10%), their salary is quite competitive without the risks involved in running a private practice and with a much better pension and healthcare package. Given the current state of the economy and the number of struggling lawyers, this is not the time to push for an increase and especially not by suing for it. If we don’t give judges an increase, we will have some bitter judges but there will be little attrition. When the economy is better maybe then we can revisit this issue or look to tie raises to inflation.

  37. “Don’t call my motivations into question?” I don’t believe I called your motivations into question. I was pretty much agreeing with your reply up ’til then.

  38. the consultant on

    to both of you …there is nothing personal in calling
    into question your logic…Why do you say New York State Judges are not the top of the profession…but federal judges are ..of all the lawyers who practice in state
    court and there are tens of thousands..the appellate division is the top and the supreme court is the top trial
    You compare these salaries with ‘PUBLIC INTEREST JOBS” THAT
    IS not a fair comparison..people who go into public interest
    jobs may or may not be the best suited and the most
    qualified for the job..they choose the job because
    that is their “thing”
    you make the statemen that judges don’t step down to
    make more money ..I will give you examples,,,
    Supreme Court Justice Russ Leggett left the bench for private practic..Supreme Court Justice Lawrence Martin
    left the bench for private practice..Supreme Court Justice
    Donald Silverman left the bench for private practice…
    and that is just in westhchester your premise is
    Your argument about a huge inccrease in talent also falls
    on its least two supreme court judges are retiring
    this year…several more in the coming years…if salaries
    are not fair..the quality of the candidate for judicial
    office in the future will be dismal.
    Judges serve the public and have huge INDIVIDUAL responsibility to make determinations in custody,
    matrimonial, contract, and other important areas
    they need to be the very best they can be in order
    that the litigants that appear before them have
    the confidence that is needed for our judicial system
    to work properly…giving them what amounts to a
    3% per year raise is not exactly overpaying for that
    Larry Martin

  39. the consultant on

    one more comment as to who made the issue personal which
    demonstrates that “stop pushing” doesn’t know how to make
    a fair argument without attacking the person
    the following was taken from his first entry

    “It should also be noted that the Consultant and his firm appear before these judges so he is by no means a neutral observer in this discussion. He has every incentive to push for increases on this blog and try and curry favor with judges that his firm will be before.”

    the above is a ridiculous ad hominem attack on me
    and my lawfirm asserting that my financial interests stake when nothingn could be further from
    the truth..I hardly have to curry favor nor does my
    firm…the quality of our work speaks for itself
    and all lawyers are either respected or not based
    on how they do what they do..I have observed and
    participated for over 30 years and I am at the very
    end of my professional career so my observations
    are neither self aggrandizing nor motivated by personal
    gain…and for you to assert otherwise makes you
    look petty and small..